I’ve made the following updates to the site:
Added Cokeville’s 44-0 victory against Kemmerer on Aug. 26, 2016. Officials at both schools verified that this was a full-on game played with normal timing and gameplay rules, contrary to my previous understanding. This extends Kemmerer’s losing streak entering this season to 37 games and its home losing streak to 18 games.
I have also added a few updates to the 2017 schedule, mostly to note some schedule changes to Zero Week.
All the updates have been made on all the relevant pages.
–patrick
Curious on why it counts against the streak? WHSAA calls it an exhibition game, and there’s never any stats from zero week games outside of 4A.
I’ve mentioned this multiple times on this blog — about what Zero Week games count here and what don’t.
To be clear, here are the rules I use to determine whether a Zero Week contest is a game or is something else:
1. Was the game played with four 12-minute quarters with normal timing rules?
2. Were officials used? And were normal rules of play instituted for the game?
3. Was score kept?
If these three criteria are met, I call it a game and record it as such on this site. How the WHSAA counts it is irrelevant to how I record results on this site. The WHSAA doesn’t provide any official record-keeping beyond what it needs to provide for culminating events.
–patrick
1 A may be interesting this year in 2017. Cokeville should be tough as will Bighorn. We will see early how good Bighorn is early against Rocky Mountain. Rocky Mountain I heard has a new coach (Can anybody confirm this) and that may make them not as strong, but they have some good talent returning. Shoshoni may be a little better than I thought. 0 week when they play Greybull may give a indication, but it will be a shorten game as last year I believe. Shoshoni is returning a very good running back, that when he was injured last year (as a Junior) led the 2A in Yards per carry. Last year Shoshoni and Greybull was a good game and I hope it is this year.
Joel, love the thought. Thanks for sharing them! As for Rocky, last I heard their coach is Richard Despain, who’s getting into his second year there.
Looking forward to seeing how 1A 11-man comes together this year. I think Cokeville is the favorite for now but Big Horn could develop quickly and be a threat.
–patrick
I see now why you want to add two losses. Then Kemmerer is tied for the active national losing streak. Unfortunately for you, Kemmerer won its exhibition game in 2015, which meets all of your criteria to qualify as a game. Please adjust Kemmerer’s losing streak to approximately 20 games. If you are honest, you will do this. I will obtain proof of this win and try to send it to you in a few days.
PS why the obsession with losing streaks. You should find something more positive to write about. The kids change every year, the coaches change, keeping track of losing steaks would be like printing a Dishonor Roll of grades, making the Worst of the Worst take the podium at the state track meet, or keeping track off the slowest mile ever run in Wyoming. All worthless pursuits. My son gets up out of the dirt after every game and plays his guts out every week, he should not have you tracking his losses.
And to make it worse, you are trying to add losses from scrimmages that really don’t matter. Since you chose to add exhibition games, please add the game from 2015 as well and adjust Kemmerer’s losing streak accordingly. There was a big write up in the Kemmerer Gazette that week, so if you don’t hear from me, you can check for yourself, since you are a reporter and know how to do that.
Monte, thanks for the thoughts. I would say that tracking the results of Wyoming’s football history is not a worthless pursuit. You would expect me to track a team’s victories, right? Well, then, tracking the losses is part of it, too.
I was unaware of the national active losing streak record. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. My decisions had nothing to do with any current national records. Your presumptions about my rationale are offensive to me personally.
I AM obsessed with the history of football in this state. You are right about that. Right now, Kemmerer’s losing streak is worth mentioning because of its irregularity.
As we all know, winning and losing a game is not directly tied to effort. Teams blessed with tremendous athletes who don’t work hard will often win games against teams blessed with hard workers but little athleticism. Tracking Kemmerer’s losses has nothing to do with shaming the players or coaches involved in the losses. In fact, they should be applauded for their perseverance, and I make strides to do so when I can. But I’m not going to whitewash the state record losing streak in the name of “finding something more positive.” I write plenty of “positive” stuff here, and many people seem grateful for the work I do.
I know there was a big write-up in the Gazette in 2015 about the contest with the Evanston JV. You wrote it. I read it. And I re-read it tonight. At the time, I also contacted coaches involved to see if the contest met the criteria for a recordable game. In 2015, those discussions led me to the conclusion that, no, this game didn’t meet the criteria. I don’t remember the specifics. But, like always, I am open to discussion about it.
–patrick
Well I was there, I certainly remember it being conducted the same as the scrimmages in 2016 and 2017. Officials, clock scoreboard, what else do you need. In fact I have video highlights. You cannot add the last two years scrimmages to the losing streak without adding the one from 2015, period.
These scrimmages are conducted like games, they all are. Problem is, the team we played was playing their younger players and we had seniors. But a win is a win if someone like you decides to count scrimmages. The above facts are why these scrimmages do not need to be counted.
Furthermore, have you examined all of Rawlins scrimmages? Maybe they still hold the record? You have cefrtainly opened up a can of worms unless you do all the research. Personally, I think it is easier to stick with the games only.
Back to my point. Why is it necessary for you to keep a database on losing? In no other sport or activity are losing records kept. Why dont you research the person with the worst mark at the state meet for every event and every class since 1980 and keep track of that too? The archive is there, it would be easy to find, and according to your logic would be equally important as the actual state records. Yes wyoming football history is important. Wyoming losers are not important to continually hound with your website. These kids are young, they had nothing to do with the losing streak when it started five years ago. Please consider dumping your morbid database of the worst losing streaks. Winning data is important, losing data is not.
Who specifically did you contact about the 2015 game and whether it met your personal criteria? We need to get to the bottom of this. Your personal reflections do not appear to be consistent.
Monte,
As I outlined in a previous comment, as well as numerous times consistently and clearly on this blog for the past nine years, when I look at Zero Week games when deciding whether they’re games that count toward records, I ask these questions:
So when you ask “What else do you need,” those are the specific things I’m looking for. It’s not personal.
I examine every Zero Week contest for every school every year. I do, indeed, “do all the research.” I’ve done literally all the research on every game I can find records for back to 1894. And I’d argue that, thanks to the research I’ve done and posted here, the state’s high school football programs have the most complete and thorough understanding of their history than they’ve ever had. It’s not personal.
As I said before, I would love to continue to discuss this further and explore the 2015 game more, and possibly include it in the records I list here. I don’t remember who I talked to specifically; I literally have dealt with hundreds of these kinds of discussions since Zero Week started and I don’t remember how I reached the conclusions I did for every single one of them. It’s not personal.
Why track losing? Because, as I noted before, losing is just as much a part of the game as winning. If I removed all losses from the database, I’d only have the ties. Philosophically, I think whitewashing a program’s history so only the positive aspects are displayed is a disservice to the history of that program, that school, that community and the state. It’s not personal.
I post information on football because that’s the sport I’ve spent the most time (13 years) in researching the history. “No other sport or activity” tracks its history in the depth and breadth that I have done for Wyoming football because this kind of research takes time and effort — literally thousands of hours in my case for Wyoming football. If I had every result from every state track meet, I’d share it, but I haven’t done that research. However, I think your suggestion that this site “hounds” people is out of line. I could do more to highlight this losing streak, but I don’t out of respect for Kemmerer, its players, coaches and community. It’s not like I mention the streak every week in my picks, even though I could. I don’t mention the extension of the streak with every loss, even though I could. I don’t constantly direct traffic to the list of losing streaks, even though I could. I WOULD probably do those things if a team had a winning streak, though. But I believe part of understanding our success comes from understanding our failure. If we don’t know where we come from, we don’t know where we’re going. I firmly believe that as a personal and professional philosophy.
In your two comments, you used “you” or “your” more than 25 times. Those comments seemed designed to personally antagonize and belittle not only my work, but me as a person. That, I take personally. Because of that, if you would like to continue this conversation, please email me at pschmiedt@yahoo.com.
–patrick
okay, I thought we were doing private emails. As I said, you can delete all these comments off your site if you want to.
I will try to find my game film of the 2015 game. Officials, normal rules, clock, it was all there. What wasnt there, was the presumption that the game would mean anything. The 4A team we played was practicing their younger kids. If they had know that that game may possibly negate Kemmerer’s “state record of futility” as it was called on wyopreps last year, they may have brought their seniors. But when a game is not supposed to count, then it should not. Nor should the last two years zero week games. But if you know in your heart that you have been consistent about that for the last 10 years, then keep this site how you want I guess.
I cannot help but say you, since I seem to be talking to a single individual.
Peace, please delete all these comments when you want.
During the Zero week Scrimmages we did have the Good, The Bad and the Ugly.
First the good. The first scrimmage which lasted two 12 min quarters was all Shoshoni Wranglers over Tongue River Eagles. Final score was 34 – 0. 20 – 0 first 1/4. I believe that TR had some Key players not healthy and this was not a true representation of their team. The starting D for Shoshoni only gave up two first downs and they were by penalty. They only of the scrimmage for the D. The O only had one and that one cost them a 70 yard gain . 2nd team defense only gave up two first downs and played good. Shoshoni called off the dogs when it got 20 to 0 and substituted freely I believe that every one that was eligible to play did play. Kade Fike, a Freshman got a Touchdown, a pick 6. Shoshoni Dominated both sides of the ball. TR is a young team and it showed. The Wranglers 1,160 lb Offensive line flexed its muscle against the smaller Eagles. Shoshoni was able to run the ball up the middle against them. The only time that TR Stopped the Wranglers was on the first position when Shoshoni threw a interception. Now the Bad Wranglers 0 to 44 against Greybull Buffs. 0 – 16 first 1/4. The Buffs are a very talented team and deserve their ranking in 2 A. They are Big and Fast. They played a very disciplined game without any major penalties. Shoshoni made many mistakes against Greybull and received many penalties that greatly affected the game. That being said Shoshoni gave them 16 of their first points. The first play went for 78 yards. A great pass on blown coverage. Any way the next possession we throw a interception and give them a short field and another 8 points. We get stopped with penalties and they make a good drive and score again early in the 2nd quarter and it is 0 – 22. Shoshoni fumbles the ball after several more penalties that stop our drive. Another short field and another score 0 to 30. Wrangles throw a Pick 6 and it is 0 to 36 after another couple penalties forced them into a passing down. Shoshoni has a big gainer called back and went for it on 4th and 4 and only made 3 1/2 yards. Gave Greybull a short field again and it was 0 to 44. Shoshoni got the ball back again and had another big gainer first play, but was called for a two personal fouls, one of them was a dead ball foul so both were accessed and it put the ball on Shoshoni 2 yard line. Shoshoni was forced to punt out of their. Greybull first Play threw 40+ Yard play down to the Shoshoni’s two. Coach called the Scrimmage over.
The Buffs also won its scrimmage against the Eagles 14-0 playing mostly 2nd string though out the game. Against Shoshoni they never did call off the dogs on us. The Buffs must have been mad after the close scrimmage we gave them last year is my only guess as they flexed there muscle against Shoshoni. I never knew that there was bad blood between us.
The Wranglers could have very easily ran up the score on the Eagles and they did not.
In any event the Wranglers played well. I think a lot of questions were answered. Our Running game is good. Both Andrew Jennings and Wyatt Ramsey ran hard as did Tryston Truempler. The O line played well. Many young players were very good and played a important role. It was a good team effort. We played against one of the top QB’s in 2 A and he did hurt us. Hopefully we will not run into anyone else that good in 1 A. We may be better than a lot of people thought. The team now has some game experience and has a better idea on what they need to work on. I was only a scrimmage, but it was good to see what the wrangles could do against some one else. We play Thermopolis next week there. They are another 2 A school. Come watch it as it should be fun.